Stars, Stripes, and Software: Alex Zap’s Journey to ZAPTEST with Alex Chernyak

[00:00:00] In a land of testers, far and wide they journeyed. Seeking answers, seeking skills, seeking a better way. Through the hills they wandered, through treacherous terrain. But then they heard a tale, a podcast they had to obey. Oh, the Test Guild Automation Testing podcast. Guiding testers with automation awesomeness. From ancient realms to modern days, they lead the way. Oh, the Test Guild Automation Testing podcast. With lutes and lyres, the bards began their song. A tune of knowledge, a melody of code. Through the air it spread, like wildfire through the land. Guiding testers, showing them the secrets to behold. Oh, the Test Guild Automation Testing podcast. Guiding testers with automation awesomeness. From ancient realms to modern days, they lead the way. Oh, the Test Guild Automation Testing podcast. Oh, the Test Guild Automation Testing podcast. With lutes and lyres, the bards began their song. A tune of knowledge, a melody of code. Through the air it spread, like wildfire through the land. Guiding testers, showing them the secrets to behold.

[00:00:35] Joe Colantonio Get ready for fireworks as we celebrate Independence Day here in the U.S with Alex Zap's inspiring story. If you don't know, Alex is a visionary whose journey reads like a real life adventure novel. He grew up in the harsh climates of Siberia, served in the Israeli Defense Forces, and eventually made his way to the U.S where his dreams really took flight. With the 4th of July coming around here in the U.S, I thought it would make for a great topic to celebrate American innovation in test automation. Get those sparklers out and welcome back to the show, Alex Zap, the mastermind behind ZAPTEST.

[00:01:12] Hey, before we get into it, if you're looking to streamline your testing process, why not give ZAPTEST a try? They're offering an enterprise version of their full featured application, a no risk, six month proof of concept, completely free of cost. Just visit testguild.me/zaptrial to download your trial today. Elevate your testing with zero commitment. Check it out and listen up to hear not only an inspiring story, but all the reasons why this offer is a no brainer. Check it out.

[00:01:41] Joe Colantonio Hey, Alex, welcome back to The Guild.

[00:01:44] Alex Chernyak Excellent. Thank you, Joe. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here today.

[00:01:47] Joe Colantonio Absolutely. And you actually look like an action hero. So this is really fitting. So good to have you back. So I guess before we get into Alex, maybe a little background with you, just start off telling us a little bit more about yourself, and then we'll we'll dive in a little deeper.

[00:02:01] Alex Chernyak Thank you, Joe. Yeah. I was born and raised in Soviet Union and the Ukrainian Jewish family and part of my dad's family, the distant family were a Jewish dissident that immigrated in the 70s to the United States. And my dad was an oil executive and he helps, he decided at that time to a different alternative path. And he went to Siberia to help Soviet to develop oil. But my childhood was, I fell for most of the part as an American kid that left behind. I knew that I was supposed to go to school somewhere in Brooklyn, and instead I was walking on the streets in Siberia there. And the brutal cold in the Soviet Union, the authority of environment. It wasn't fun, but it was very tough, childhood with basically with people that's, we're suffering the same. And when I had a chance, all by myself when I was 18, I left Soviet Union. I had a window of opportunity I took. That's basically how my childhood started.

[00:03:15] Joe Colantonio So, Alex, I'm just curious to know when you left Soviet Union, I assume was in the 80s or the 70s, was it hard to get out? I don't want to get political here, but I know it was a different environment back then, what was that?

[00:03:26] Alex Chernyak I know. It was pure Soviet Union as it was portrayed pretty much in the American movies back then. It was the Iron Curtain. It was like civilize concentration camp for people to live. It was very poor and very tough for everyone. And then the reason why I had an opportunity to move out in the late 80s, Gorbachev, when they started perestroika, they opened the gate for a different few group of , Jews, basically the Soviet Jews to go to Israel. And Germans also were able, Germans had been captured during World War Two and their families that were developing in the Soviet Union environment as prisoners. They were able to join their families in Germany. So it was very, very challenging decision for me. I mean, I was a kid that didn't speak any language, but the Russian. Back then, imagine you probably remember those days were about the same age, I think. There weren't internet. My kids, think of this era as a Lord of the rings sort of. There were days when we didn't have internet, all we had a just letters, the paper letters that people write with the cursive and send it in the mail. And the trick was, you don't know if it's going to reach you or not. Specially in soviet Union, anything could happen. And we had no information about holidays on the other side. I guess it's a just conversation for a different show. You and I were going to do a show about it. I'll tell you more. But that's why that's how I was able to live. And, yeah, I went to my first stop was in Israel.

[00:05:17] Joe Colantonio Why the Israel Defense Force? I'm kind of ignorant. I assume that everyone in their 18 needs to join the Israeli army. I don't know if that's true or not. Is this part of what you had to do to become a citizen of Israel or to go to Israel? Or is that something you did voluntarily?

[00:05:32] Alex Chernyak I did voluntarily. I was a judoka. I mean, I was a skinny Jewish kid that played piano dance and act and, everybody were taking advantage of me in my class. I decided to change my destiny. And I started to play judo and I used to fight a lot. I was like advanced, at that time, by 18, I was pretty advanced martial artist. And as far as a teenager can be. But anyway, when I came by myself, I didn't have parents so they told me you have two choices. You can go to yeshiva, to a religious school, or you can go join Army instead, of course, Army. And if I go to join Army, I've been raised being A plus achiever, sort of. And I said, if I go to the Army, it's going to be combat forces. It's going to be special forces. I was preparing myself before Army, I was getting the condition, and I went through the survival tests and whatnot. I discharged as an honor soldier. And that's actually how why I live in the United States. Because when I discharge IDF gave me different choices. What I want to do after discharge. And I said, I have a decent family in the United States. It was my childhood dream to join them. I want to go to the United States. So IDF asked U.S consulate to give me entry visa and the Americans gave me a lifetime visa. I'm an American citizen because I was a good soldier in Israeli Defense Force.

[00:07:04] Joe Colantonio That's awesome. How long you were in the force for?

[00:07:08] Alex Chernyak Three years and then just regular but this was very interesting. I mean, I love it. If I can talk again, I can talk about it for hours. But I can tell you one thing, but would have going on in world, IDF, it's an army that made by parents for their kids. If you have kids and you will think of the army, this is the army that IDF is. And this is what I took away for 30 years since.

[00:07:34] Joe Colantonio Wow! Wow! Very nice. Why come to the U.S then? Seemed like you're doing well in Israel? IDF seems like it's perfect for you. Like why, why why leave and go to the U.S at that point?

[00:07:47] Alex Chernyak Well, that was my childhood dream. And then I felt I was raised in the thinking of myself as an American kid, and I didn't see myself living anywhere but in the United States.

[00:08:01] Joe Colantonio Awesome. Yeah. So all right, so you come to the U.S, and then what happens? I'm always fascinated how are you going to tech then? Did you learn anything from the IDF that like, oh, maybe technology is the way to go or like what did you learn any lessons from being in the defense force that you brought over to the U.S that you then applied to business that made you go in the direction you went in?

[00:08:24] Alex Chernyak Well, the first of all, IDF gave me great lessons of Western culture. Imagine, I'd been growing up in the pro-communist like authority for regime where there wasn't a fair game. There is not such a definition of the fair game. I knew that everything was corrupted. You have to be known in someone that the bring someone somewhere. A lot of bribery about this and this. You have to be someone and somewhere to to be somewhere. I mean, I don't know, some jubbish but bottom line, in IDF, I learned that in order for you to be a leader, you have to be advanced soldier. There's no another way. You cannot become an officer, live in and outside of the trenches to let people in the life threatening missions. And that gave me a great charge for the rest of my life. I always in my career, I'm looking at myself as the advance soldier of my business, I have to live my engineers by being a engineer. Make sense? That's the greatest lesson of my life.

[00:09:39] Joe Colantonio That is a great lesson, for sure. So what led you then to build ZAPTEST? Because I've known you. You haven't known me. I've known of you for years and years and years. I've seen you, like, back in the day, in Mercury, they used to have conferences, and they'd have, vendors there, and I could have sworn you were there. In the early times, you had big parties. What made you start ZAPTEST early then?

[00:10:03] Joe Colantonio Absolutely. Great question. I was in sales first. I was selling the consumer electronics at the beginning, but I was thinking of myself a lot more than that. I wanted to do something corporate oriented. My parents were corporate executives in Soviet Union. I grew up in the family and all the surroundings of the leaders that make decision decision makers, kind of, corporate people. And I've seen myself in this environment, but I have you say, I play piano and I speak five. I can communicate in five languages by now, but I have this phonetic disabling. I have a thick accent. It doesn't matter how long I going to live from the-I still have a thick Russian accent. And in early days in the sales, I wanted to go to corporate sales first. I actually, I wanted to be technical recruiter in Miami. Nobody was hiring. I was going to interviews, nobody hiring me. And one manager came out, he was Cuban. She said, listen, I feel sentimental to you. We grew up in the similar environments. Nobody's going to hire you. It's hard to understand you on the phone. If you want to get into technology become an engineer. And there was one mentor in my life that gave me good advice. He said, listen, it was mid-90s. He said, quality assurance industry is rising because everybody is starting to afraid of bad 2000. They hired a lot of test engineers. You might have an opportunity to get it. And this is how I started. But I was looking at as a business, I wanted to create a business out of it. And I wanted to do a value more than just manual testing. And I started researching vendors on the market who does this automation? And I came across Mercury interactive. I started to do research of the leadership, and I found that some leading managers, I saw an army with and they knew that. So I contacted them and I started to find out, they said, okay, welcome back. Here's a white paper on the WinRunner becomes a certified, and if you qualify, we're going to sign you up as an independent consultant partner. And we're going to give you opportunities to deliver services. And this is how it all started. But with that, I wanted to, I have this thing I like to push the normal into new normal and always finding the alternative approaches to the same thing. So I looked at the consulting, and I incorporated special ops principles that I learned in army in Israel to the software consulting. Back then, If you remember those days we used to be called the Road Warriors. Every Monday and Friday, you see a number of lines in the airports of the corporate dressed professionals lining up to fly either to customer or from customer to side or from side. Yeah, we're going on the customer side. And this is how we used to live. And I designed the delivery process where people could deploy faster, deliver more services and multitask and wait. And it started to work out. But another thing that I also came up with back then, it was a rise of the web technologies. So late 90s beginning of 2000 and on the market at that time, Mercury and Rational were two main vendors that were rivals for market leadership. I said, guys, you know what? I'm willing to fly to Israel to sit down those engineers in the lab. And we'll remember beginning of 2000, it was the second intifada in Israel where bad guys were blowing busses on the streets and killing a lot of people. So it wasn't safe at all. And I said, you know what? That I'm afraid and I'm an Israel soldier. I'll go. I used to fly in and work out with engineers in the lab. The early alpha versions come back to the customers in the States and try to implement. And this functionality is in the process. I'm a big process guy. My forte was two things some of the consulting that I love the most. It's trained classes to teach people how to do automation. For me, it's all like a performance arts. And also designed the processes for big corporation like a factory automation factories. And to complement the process, you need to have certain functionality that sits in the process, not just blindly, we decided to think that it's going to complement it. Right. So it was case applicable. I used to deliver services to find out from the customer the first hand what the challenges might be communicated to R&D in Israel. And sometime some functionalities they were, I proud to say were building with my feedback. And so this is how we build the first wave of software where advanced consulting for they used to call us Mercury swap team. Every challenging technology, any new things that's happened. Sometimes I used to fly to the customer and have the new technology that nobody even implemented yet, and just read the white paper user guide to get myself ready for kickoff meeting. Something like that. We had a very interesting times back then.

[00:15:38] Joe Colantonio That sounds awesome. I miss Mercury. What are those special ops principles? Do you have like a framework or like is it just in general what you've learned?

[00:15:51] Alex Chernyak First of all, it's a people and a special ops gain on the people. If you have a people with solid skills, good work ethic and determination and ability to multitask and most importantly, be adaptable to any situation, and this is the most important thing. I've been carefully selecting my team members, but I have people that work with me for 20 years, through the I always say I treat the family as a business and business as a family. I have people today work from me out of Ukraine, for example, and every time I watch it and hear of the air strike, I text them right away saying, how are you doing? Are you safe? We had mass in Israel in October, and I had Israeli crew that I helped them to move out of my shops that were being attacked remotely. And we situate them in a different corner for Israel and so far and so on. Makes sense. I'm very much involved in my team. I have people working from me from all over the world. I got people in Nigeria, in the field, in Armenia, Georgia, Israel, in Turkey, you name it, of course, America, American company. Those are the main principles and of course, always self-education. It's a constant race with master in web, we move into mobile, we master mobile, we move into AI, we always moving. We always reinvent ourselves.

[00:17:21] Joe Colantonio I love it. Great principles to live by, for sure. How then help you to build ZAPTEST. So I know. So you were consulting you started to learn more and more. Did you then build your own technology where you build on top of Mercury, then you pulled away like, where did ZAPTEST the product itself come into play?

[00:17:39] Alex Chernyak Great question. So in 2006, if you remember, HP started HP software as a software division, being the hardware company and the first acquisition of the company that I did it was Mercury Interactive. It was one of the largest Israeli company acquisition back then, and they paid like $4 or $5 billion for that. With that, Mercury as a company had a policy of the small group consultants. So like myself this way, I been given the opportunity to build a company around myself. They were assigning you have to be two people, company at least, both certified. And that's when they start giving you engagement. Mercury had an ecosystem of maybe over 100 partners. We were the only partner that Mercury had that didn't care of the sell were because we had a different specialty. My add value to the company was my advance delivery, my advance models that complemented their piece. This is why they never pressured me to put any sell squad or to resell their software. I didn't know how. I didn't have a sales force. And when the HP acquired Mercury, they said, we're giving you limit. I remember probably ten companies or so. Take the biggest vendors like at that time .... and others, if you remember that were a big resellers of Mercury products. And we both Atlanta based. So this why I remember. Mercury turned out to them and said, guys, you know what? We have a one extra partner that we want to strongly ask you to take because they in the gray area, they're not typical. Don't follow the rules pretty much. There are shadow team. And I flew to Texas to meet up with HP executives to represent my case and what add value we're going to bring to them. And they were like it. They said, listen, that's a crazy but very interesting idea. They got us in. But with that they said, you have to carry the .... So I said, you know what? I never done it, but I used to be in sales in the past, I'll take a challenge. We dusted off our SOWs that we have for through the services. I called around all the managers that I met and my team deliver services to some guys, which we partners now. We carry the .... So please, if you're going to do a renewal of Mercury software, do it through us. All right. But in order for you to do that, we'll want to do extra talking for you. As a practice architect, I've seen the gap on the market. What tools can deliver? At that time, if you remember, Adobe started to bring up the flex and flash. There were web technologist that were positioned as an act effects. So Adobe 4, I don't know if and now we walked away from the technology, but back then, they didn't offer open APIs to anyone, so you could not steal anything. Exactly. If everybody using Dom based object recognition and you know object recognition, that's a key, then the core functionality of any UI automation technology, if you don't recognize object your framework is going to chuck somewhere and your execution will be worthless. In order to assure flawless execution, we have to be very creative. How are we going to present it to the customers? So I started to work on a new generation algorithm for object recognition. I said, you know what? We have to do new normal. We have to build a spider man that can fly across the screens. Recognize objects. And this is how we came up with the ZAP fix. It was add in developer Quick Test Pro that was given alternative recognition engine to QTP, which allows you to switch from the built in, Dom based object to ZAP Fix that OCR/ that, back then, what it is, it's a computer vision technology. Back then, we didn't know that it's called computer vision. It was very early. It's all the later computer vision started to determined to be determined itself to be used. This was a computer vision technology from one of the first of the time. I used to call customer and say, listen, if you buy Quick Test Pro through me, I'll give you this magic add in for free that you can use with Quick Test Pro. And that's how we started to build a resale business. And we see the success, in 2011, in Vienna, I remember we were the partner conference, and I present a step out at the conference, had a full presentation slot, a nonsense ZAP as a software. Back then, it was ZAP technology software. We switched the publisher from being the services company into the full product company. This is how zap started and we started to call it ZAPTEST, I think, believe around 2014 or something like that where we started to rebrand.

[00:22:55] Joe Colantonio It's now completely separate from HP. It's not HP anymore. One tech, I think. It's now a complete separate product by itself.

[00:23:09] Alex Chernyak For many years. We disengaged completely from the relationship which around 2014 when we started to call it ZAPTEST. We rebranded to ZAPTEST.

[00:23:20] Joe Colantonio You've been around for a bit. You really know your stuff. If someone wants to check out ZAPTEST, I think I look to your website. You're always doing something new. You're trying to think outside of the box. I think you have some sort of like new. I think it's like an onboarding initiative. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? I think it's like a six month offering.

[00:23:36] Alex Chernyak Absolutely. Yeah. So in the Quick, what we do, we offer market ability to do proof of concept for six months at no cost. Basically, in the simple terms, you'll start contract through ZAPTEST and for the first six months you have rights to walk away from the contract without paying us anything. This is how confident we are in our software and the overall solution that between the software and the process that we applied, we can fit in. And whatever you have. Like if you look at the software the way it is today, we managed to design the hybrid software that allows you to automate any UI agnostic to technology of this UI. So meaning the same framework can apply seamlessly to mobile application, to mainframe application, to SAP, all that. No difference at all. Makes sense? We're giving you flexibility to execute one script across multiple platform at once, so saves you a lot of time for regression testing and time to market. We giving you opportunity. For any manager, one of the main challenges. It's how to adapt new technology to deliver the goals with the personnel that they have. Because a team is an asset, every manager builds a team around themselves of the company hiring people, evaluating people and boarding them, feeding them into the process. It's a whole process and they became part of your team like the family. You don't want to get rid of anyone, but you have a limited budget. How would you fit it in? Plus, our software allows you to script in many different ways. You don't need to be a professional automator. You may, we offer, JavaScript scripting approach, or even VBscript if you'd like. But the JavaScript serves where a well, a lot of people familiar with that, especially the ex Selenium guys. We offer a new low code. If you understand the logic and you want to construct it but don't do any scripting, you can use the icon driven tree view. What's not right. And we also have a copilot for over a year now, OpenAI started to release the APIs. So we adopted and we use a generative AI to drive through natural language. Entire automation. Today, any novice, intern that comes to your company can learn concept of testing and test automation through ZAP profile. You basically can prompted to give me an overview of functional testing. And it's going to give you a detailed overview like ChatGPT, but trained on the ZAPTEST, trained on the testing. And it gives you more precise, direct answers. So it can guide you through conceptual understanding of testing, through precise writing the code script for particular object collaboration and whatnot.

[00:26:38] Joe Colantonio Is that part of the six month POC?

[00:26:40] Alex Chernyak Everything. As you start the six months with us, we given you full enterprise version unlimited. I just want to review what we offer in general. The software able to complement any products. Another challenge of you as a QA manager, some QA teams support multiple projects. Some project waterfall, some projects is agile. And they diverse schedule delivery. The fast you can do either or you can be very agile. You can automate on the mock ups. With only one on the market that allows you to automate on the pure picture. You can have a hand drawing scanners with ZAPTEST scanner that parses on the objects, and you can construct script based on your logic, based on the use case and the create the script. And then you can generate test documentation for backup purposes. You can complement the collaboration of multiple teams, a lot of customer schedule and setup where you have subject matter expert that's knows what needs to be automated. You may have Automator so maybe vendors that they hire for automation that position and the different country, different time zone. Let's get around. Or maybe they have a security a restriction for vendors to use access of the software. In this case, we offer in companies video scenario recording technology. It's a desktop recorder within the ZAPTEST, we have Xstudio that allows you subject matter expert, just to record a video of the manual procedure of the test case scenario. And pass it on to Automator. Automator in their own time to watch the video. You can also live narration, Audio narration to it as a movie, and they can parse this video into the object. And construct the script without an touching life application. Based on the video. Make sense? So it complements whatever the delivery schedule you have. You want to be as agile you want to be as waterfall? You can fit and need any skill set together. And most importantly, you can automate anything. Now, even on the automation side, if I dive into technicalities on the UI side you have a multiple option. You can automate using ZOE. It's our ZAP object engine. This is the computer Vision plus AI. We have AI injected not just in the copilot. We also have AI injected in object recognition. In the cases where you need to do more advanced object recognition, you can collaborate with the AI properties. Make sense. And you can incorporate WebDriver. We designed the WebDriver with object repository. WebDriver never had an object repository know that they were new, on the market. This was a big problem because for years, Selenium frameworks were very linear, were procedural. Make sense. Takes a lot of time to build and customize. I mean, guys were created with different component based architectures around that. And we merged our WebDriver into the shared object repository of our ZOE. So you can have a dual application. If for example, either you move on from WebDriver to ZAP, from Selenium to ZAPTEST. You incorporate on the hybrid model because you may end up ZAPTEST to do number of project, but you have projects that been already automated with Selenium. You don't want to a retired them. Right. So you can merge. That's a beauty. On the top of everything, even if that's not enough, you can use API automation either as a standalone in the studio because we're giving you unlimited licenses. At the very beginning, new developers can start using ZAPTEST for unit testing, using the APIs studio's integrated collaborating with the functional test automation, on the UI side. And even the functional testers can mix UI and API step on the same script to expedite or maybe improve validation between the user and the system. Make sense?

[00:30:43] Joe Colantonio Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:44] Alex Chernyak And I can tell even more. On the top of everything. You can reuse API script for load testing. We got the load studio, so you don't need to re script anything. I'm a process guy. I build technology that compliments the process and I'm a sales guys. I'm positioning and the way that I'm not leaving any room for rejection, if you intention to automate, even if you don't have budget right away, we can work.

[00:31:16] Joe Colantonio That six month POC is game changer, because a lot of people I talk to like they work with the company for a few weeks, they get a working on a toy app and then they buy it and they're like, all right, see you later. And then they're stuck with this expensive tool. This is crazy. Full enterprise, all the features you just talked about, a part of the six month POC.

[00:31:36] Alex Chernyak Thank you. I just I believe in the sustainable business. I mean, I grew up in the blue chip corporate environment. Imagine. I was late 20s. I didn't know American life. I didn't know culture much. And nothing about the corporate environment. I didn't go to school here. Even the writing emails, I learn from my American mentors, I've been lucky to be under the wing of the very, solid American corporate executives that were teaching me everything. I even became an NFL fan football fan, artificially. I mean, one of the few first generation immigrants that love American football as much as I love it. And because I was infusing myself into the American culture altogether. Based on this practice, I believe in the long term relationship with my customers. I have customers that deal with me for 20 years for all my ZAP life being as a company and to support people and they partner to put their name next to mine. They became from being the just adjuster managers to the directors of QA, directors of development and the global leaders with supporting all the initiatives and being there when we have to be and always innovating, always delivering. And for that, we confident enough to offer that much flexibility to our prospect to make wait a decision that they comfortable with us because any automation, it's a long term game. If you started especially UI automation, you better continue it. Otherwise, you wasted your investment. Makes sense. And you want to partner with the vendor that A, has very advanced technology, but B, also very reliable. That's not going to go out of business tomorrow. They're not going to get acquired by the investor that who will go South. Something's going to go wrong. We proved our record. We proved ourselves. You've seen me around for 25 years. I always there. And this is why I personally supervise every opportunity that comes to ZAP. To make sure that we give an 120% for our customers. You snooze, you lose. I feel it more than maybe any other American executive because I'm a hybrid American if you will. And for me, the sense of presenting myself to my employees, to foreign prospects that approaching us, I always, saying everyone guys, despite my accent we're American company and the sort of thing based on our ethics as American nation, on the corporate, on the national ethics, we don't do like we don't give you one prize and give someone else another prize. Something like that. We have one prize, we understand we made the market research. You understand what market needs. We understand what we're giving you for that and withstanding to that. So bottom line, I'm trying to keep American flag high and strong. That's why 4th of July is this way, this day that's very special for me, personally.

[00:35:01] Joe Colantonio I love it. I come from a family of immigrants, my grandparents, a lot of my friends families are from Italy as well. And they seem to be more patriotic than people that just grew up here. Could this have happened anywhere else other than the U.S? A lot of times people go out, U.S is bad, but it sounds like it's been very good to what you believe in and how it's helped your company.

[00:35:22] Alex Chernyak I won't stop speaking enough about our country and only in the United States. Corporate underdog like me, could make it. All by myself, all by my hoodspot, my smarts. And the people that supports me and the people that, I was treating as an American executive, even though they're living in different zip codes, different countries, and they work remotely. Makes sense. But because I always religiously follow the rules of being the diligence, being a responsible and responsive and always set expectation and meet the expectation that I set. I saved every morning for my employees, mostly. Every morning they come with a certain time. We have a scheduled meeting, and they see me as a leader. They're always in my full gear. I'm ready to execute.

[00:36:19] Joe Colantonio Love it. All right, Alex, once again, I could talk to you forever. This is really a perfect story for the 4th of July and for the independence of automation and all those things. Thank you so much for sharing your journey. It's really cool stuff. Before we go, though, is there one piece of actual advice you want to share with The Guild before we go?

[00:36:38] Alex Chernyak I want all as an American leaders, remember that everybody in the world looking up to us because we're a leading nation. And we are responsible for keeping our American flag strong and always set an example. And this is my motto in life. I'm an American engineer, an American executive. God bless America. Happy 4th.

[00:37:04] Thanks again for your automation awesomeness. The links of everything we value we covered in this episode. Head in over to testguild.com/a503. And if the show has helped you in any way, why not rate it and review it in iTunes? Reviews really help in the rankings of the show and I read each and every one of them. So that's it for this episode of the Test Guild Automation Podcast. I'm Joe, my mission is to help you succeed with creating end-to-end, full-stack automation awesomeness. As always, test everything and keep the good. Cheers.

[00:37:40] Hey, thanks again for listening. If you're not already part of our awesome community of 27,000 of the smartest testers, DevOps, and automation professionals in the world, we'd love to have you join the FAM at Testguild.com and if you're in the DevOps automation software testing space or you're a test tool provider and want to offer real-world value that can improve the skills or solve a problem for the Guild community. I love to hear from you head on over to testguild.info And let's make it happen.